I think writing critically about Phish in the 90s is always going to get you into trouble and can explain the flatlined subscription numbers. A lot of fans just don't wanna hear it. And I get it because they were just *so damn good* in the 90s even when the shows were a little flat.
But yeah, I think you're maybe a little too easy on Big Red overall here — which is fair because it's really just conjecture. But was he getting a little high on his own rock star status as phish continued to explode? Yes. Was his family life kind of falling apart? Also yes. Were his bandmates kinda pissed he started another band and wanted them to play parts written by the members of his other band? Also likely yes. Was alcohol consumption among the 4 of them becoming less about the party and more about the habit? Also yes. Was a real love/hate relationship between the band and their traveling circus becoming more hate? I think possibly yes.
There's also just SO little humor on this tour compared to fall '98. Even that Memphis show, despite the epic 2001, the Mike's Groove feels kind of contrived and forced. And even the "surprises" this tour feel so much less phish-y. Playing one of the most cliche Zeppelin songs THREE times??
But yeah the simpler answer of tour exhaustion is also possible...'99 was their lightest touring year since '88...feels deliberate on their part that they wanted fewer shows/were sick of the road. And all the hot shows besides a brief pick-up around Memphis being at the beginning of the tour speaks to that.
Fewer total shows but all of them coming from 6/30 onwards with only a month break in August is a lot, not to mention they hit the barn to record Farmhouse literally the day after Albany, so post-Japan was their only real break. Meanwhile Trey was also putting together and touring with his first real band at the same time he and Page were learning a big slice of the Grateful Dead songbook. Yowza. But I hear the exhaustion hitting after Camden the next summer, not so much during this tour.
Yes, I was meaning to say I agree exhaustion. Fewer total shows does not mean easy touring schedules. Their road schedule looked gruesome. But they booked fewest shows with Phish in a decade....that wasn't because Trey was just sitting around; as you said there was studio sessions/TAB tour, etc. But maybe there was a desire in the band to not be on the road with the 4 of them so much...
This is about the point in the band's history where my view seems like it's going to start diverging from yours. I know that the consistency wavers from '99-'04, and that there are sets that don't work and full shows that don't work. But the highs from this period rank among some of my favorite music ever produced by the band. I am more forgiving of some of the flaws that creep in because the peaks are so high.
You say there are "isolated moments that work in the fall," but those moments include the Chula Vista show and the Boise Bag and the Memphis show, and that feels like a lot more than isolated moments to me. It feels like a band figuring out their next direction in fits and starts, often in ways that are unsuccessful and more inconsistent than previous iterations, but when they do work, they are absolutely mind blowing. I'm more than OK with that.
Dec. '99 through July 4th of 2000 is one of my favorite periods in Phish history. I've always seen Fall '99 as a spotty tour that attempts to reach new heights, and succeeds in the best jams. The resulting run -- early December through the first part of summer 2000 -- pays this off big time.
I hear it MUCH closer to you than Rob, which is of course fine, I don’t read these just to reinforce my pre-existing opinion. I think they tightened up in a lot of ways throughout this tour in contrast to the party-time summer. I think they really addressed one of their last remaining weaknesses as a band, which was to play metronomic grooves that were laid back and in the pocket while still playing *songs* and not just jams. It’s the challenge of being an LA or Nashville session musician, or the SNL house band. It requires a level of maturity and commitment that resulted in a much song-ier tour, but that yielded some incredible results by Camden when they ran out of steam.
But that’s of course the problem, with everything going on in the scene, in their lives, and in their careers, they ran out of steam by the middle of 00 and they dropped it. I think the challenge of delivering 5 minute pop songs is incredibly (and understandably) underrated by the Phish fandom. But Phish would have never had the chill to play with the kind of maturity of say Fleetwood Mac until this point in their careers. And I think what they’re doing here is two-fold, not just trying to play songs with that kind of maturity, but also jams.
At the end of the day the approach just doesn’t work for everyone, but also hearing a band try and develop and grow live on stage (fall 96 & early fall 99) is always going to be less satisfying than the results it yields (97 & December 99 through Camden 00). Still, the Trey-ego narrative Rob harps on about is a bit overblown to me. So much of this tour features Trey stepping aside and allowing Mike and Fish to really mature as a rhythm section. As a rhythm section player myself it sucks at first to narrow your groove down to the bare bones until you realize exactly where your power is coming from. Gotta Jibboo wasn’t working for them until after 12/13 when they came off stage all pissed about it and realized that the fix couldn’t be simpler: Fishman literally just had to swing the ride instead of playing it straight and it completely blossomed.
Until yesterday I agreed with Rob about the 10/9 2001, even though I’ve listened to that Ghost literally hundreds of times, I had never gotten into the 2001. That changed big time, and I’ve had it on repeat. Trey steps back and Mike completely takes control with the most minute shifts in his rhythm and groove and lays down some of the nastiest shit I’ve ever heard. It’s Trey setting his ego aside, whereas Memphis (which is still GOAT) succeeds in large part because of everything Evil Trey is doing. But it’s crazy how that narrative often gets flipped and when Trey tries to get out of the way he garners more accusations of ego. Anyway, total rambles by this point. This tour isn’t for everyone, and it’s growing pains for sure, but I come back to the more mundane shows from this tour far more often than the off nights of fall 98, of which there were also many IMO. Different strokes.
Funnily enough, I had the same experience with the 2001. I always loved that Ghost, but never thought much of the 2001. After reading yesterday's review, I gave it another listen and found it hypnotic, especially Mike. I would love a cleaner sounding copy of that show!
God yes.. A box set of these 4 nights would be an absolute dream for me!!
7/21, 7/25, 9/12, 10/2, 12/3, 12/7-8, 12/11.. the people need them all in SBD! Oh and the 12/5 Taste… such a boomy Aud, they need to play Rochester again just so Shapiro can drop that onto a LiveBait and we can really hear the full glory of it!
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, really enjoyed reading along. I saw a bunch of shows in 1999 and my memory was that these September/October shows were great. Naturally I’d listened back to the official releases, live bait, and soundboard leaks, but hadn’t done a meaningful front to back in the way I have with summer and December tours. In doing so, I was surprised to find how many of these shows lack focus or really any compelling centerpiece jams. I think it’s a great take and agree that trying to find a place for the TAB material and putting the focus back on Trey as band leader had a lot to with it. Also drugs. I still love the 99 sound and think the highs are high from this tour with 9/12 and 10/2 deserving of the official release treatment. But yeah, overall, not as great as remembered. And definitely not on par with the summer tour that came before nor what happens next (December, Cypress, Japan). Thanks again, been fun listening and reading along.
I think writing critically about Phish in the 90s is always going to get you into trouble and can explain the flatlined subscription numbers. A lot of fans just don't wanna hear it. And I get it because they were just *so damn good* in the 90s even when the shows were a little flat.
But yeah, I think you're maybe a little too easy on Big Red overall here — which is fair because it's really just conjecture. But was he getting a little high on his own rock star status as phish continued to explode? Yes. Was his family life kind of falling apart? Also yes. Were his bandmates kinda pissed he started another band and wanted them to play parts written by the members of his other band? Also likely yes. Was alcohol consumption among the 4 of them becoming less about the party and more about the habit? Also yes. Was a real love/hate relationship between the band and their traveling circus becoming more hate? I think possibly yes.
There's also just SO little humor on this tour compared to fall '98. Even that Memphis show, despite the epic 2001, the Mike's Groove feels kind of contrived and forced. And even the "surprises" this tour feel so much less phish-y. Playing one of the most cliche Zeppelin songs THREE times??
But yeah the simpler answer of tour exhaustion is also possible...'99 was their lightest touring year since '88...feels deliberate on their part that they wanted fewer shows/were sick of the road. And all the hot shows besides a brief pick-up around Memphis being at the beginning of the tour speaks to that.
Fewer total shows but all of them coming from 6/30 onwards with only a month break in August is a lot, not to mention they hit the barn to record Farmhouse literally the day after Albany, so post-Japan was their only real break. Meanwhile Trey was also putting together and touring with his first real band at the same time he and Page were learning a big slice of the Grateful Dead songbook. Yowza. But I hear the exhaustion hitting after Camden the next summer, not so much during this tour.
Yes, I was meaning to say I agree exhaustion. Fewer total shows does not mean easy touring schedules. Their road schedule looked gruesome. But they booked fewest shows with Phish in a decade....that wasn't because Trey was just sitting around; as you said there was studio sessions/TAB tour, etc. But maybe there was a desire in the band to not be on the road with the 4 of them so much...
This is about the point in the band's history where my view seems like it's going to start diverging from yours. I know that the consistency wavers from '99-'04, and that there are sets that don't work and full shows that don't work. But the highs from this period rank among some of my favorite music ever produced by the band. I am more forgiving of some of the flaws that creep in because the peaks are so high.
You say there are "isolated moments that work in the fall," but those moments include the Chula Vista show and the Boise Bag and the Memphis show, and that feels like a lot more than isolated moments to me. It feels like a band figuring out their next direction in fits and starts, often in ways that are unsuccessful and more inconsistent than previous iterations, but when they do work, they are absolutely mind blowing. I'm more than OK with that.
Dec. '99 through July 4th of 2000 is one of my favorite periods in Phish history. I've always seen Fall '99 as a spotty tour that attempts to reach new heights, and succeeds in the best jams. The resulting run -- early December through the first part of summer 2000 -- pays this off big time.
I hear it MUCH closer to you than Rob, which is of course fine, I don’t read these just to reinforce my pre-existing opinion. I think they tightened up in a lot of ways throughout this tour in contrast to the party-time summer. I think they really addressed one of their last remaining weaknesses as a band, which was to play metronomic grooves that were laid back and in the pocket while still playing *songs* and not just jams. It’s the challenge of being an LA or Nashville session musician, or the SNL house band. It requires a level of maturity and commitment that resulted in a much song-ier tour, but that yielded some incredible results by Camden when they ran out of steam.
But that’s of course the problem, with everything going on in the scene, in their lives, and in their careers, they ran out of steam by the middle of 00 and they dropped it. I think the challenge of delivering 5 minute pop songs is incredibly (and understandably) underrated by the Phish fandom. But Phish would have never had the chill to play with the kind of maturity of say Fleetwood Mac until this point in their careers. And I think what they’re doing here is two-fold, not just trying to play songs with that kind of maturity, but also jams.
At the end of the day the approach just doesn’t work for everyone, but also hearing a band try and develop and grow live on stage (fall 96 & early fall 99) is always going to be less satisfying than the results it yields (97 & December 99 through Camden 00). Still, the Trey-ego narrative Rob harps on about is a bit overblown to me. So much of this tour features Trey stepping aside and allowing Mike and Fish to really mature as a rhythm section. As a rhythm section player myself it sucks at first to narrow your groove down to the bare bones until you realize exactly where your power is coming from. Gotta Jibboo wasn’t working for them until after 12/13 when they came off stage all pissed about it and realized that the fix couldn’t be simpler: Fishman literally just had to swing the ride instead of playing it straight and it completely blossomed.
Until yesterday I agreed with Rob about the 10/9 2001, even though I’ve listened to that Ghost literally hundreds of times, I had never gotten into the 2001. That changed big time, and I’ve had it on repeat. Trey steps back and Mike completely takes control with the most minute shifts in his rhythm and groove and lays down some of the nastiest shit I’ve ever heard. It’s Trey setting his ego aside, whereas Memphis (which is still GOAT) succeeds in large part because of everything Evil Trey is doing. But it’s crazy how that narrative often gets flipped and when Trey tries to get out of the way he garners more accusations of ego. Anyway, total rambles by this point. This tour isn’t for everyone, and it’s growing pains for sure, but I come back to the more mundane shows from this tour far more often than the off nights of fall 98, of which there were also many IMO. Different strokes.
Funnily enough, I had the same experience with the 2001. I always loved that Ghost, but never thought much of the 2001. After reading yesterday's review, I gave it another listen and found it hypnotic, especially Mike. I would love a cleaner sounding copy of that show!
God yes.. A box set of these 4 nights would be an absolute dream for me!!
7/21, 7/25, 9/12, 10/2, 12/3, 12/7-8, 12/11.. the people need them all in SBD! Oh and the 12/5 Taste… such a boomy Aud, they need to play Rochester again just so Shapiro can drop that onto a LiveBait and we can really hear the full glory of it!
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, really enjoyed reading along. I saw a bunch of shows in 1999 and my memory was that these September/October shows were great. Naturally I’d listened back to the official releases, live bait, and soundboard leaks, but hadn’t done a meaningful front to back in the way I have with summer and December tours. In doing so, I was surprised to find how many of these shows lack focus or really any compelling centerpiece jams. I think it’s a great take and agree that trying to find a place for the TAB material and putting the focus back on Trey as band leader had a lot to with it. Also drugs. I still love the 99 sound and think the highs are high from this tour with 9/12 and 10/2 deserving of the official release treatment. But yeah, overall, not as great as remembered. And definitely not on par with the summer tour that came before nor what happens next (December, Cypress, Japan). Thanks again, been fun listening and reading along.